the honoured dead

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:18 pm Post subject: the honoured dead

i am reading "the honoured dead" by joseph braude, the arabic-speaking american journalist who was "embedded" with police in casa..............he says he was invited by a middle-aged moroccan to go to the masjid to pray and the man knew he was jewish......and he went with him at prayer time......i have never met anyone who would do that.......does anyone know anyone who would invite a jew or christian or hindu into a masjid for communal prayer?.....in maroc, anything can happen.....but.....

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: the honoured dead

Why is it important... Confused

It's the same God is it not? Shouldn't all places of worship be open and free for all to pray regardless of their religion?

Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: the honoured dead

maybe it's only important from a sociological standpoint....in countries other than morocco, they let tourists wander into mosques......also while reading the book i was interested in how deeply this foreigner had penetrated the culture and whether he was faking it for a better story or other ulterior motives. after all, when you have a career and invest a couple of months in a project, the marketable product you want to come up with may be more important than the truth, depending on who you are............back in the 1930's, there was a best-selling travel book, recounting his adventures in saudi arabia, by a man who had never set foot in the country---a total fraud........

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:35 am Post subject: Re: the honoured dead

That's the thing about books...fact or fiction it's all down to interpretation. I would not say the travel writer persay is a fraud for writing a book about a place he had never personally visited, as it's possible with research to find all the facts needed and compile them into a comprehensive travel guide...without ever leaving the comfort of your armchair. What would be fraudelant if he passed the work off as his own experience. I've read many works of fiction over the years which have had the power to entrall and move me...down to the authors skill with words and some imagination.

Also I enjoy reading works of non fiction, but are they always acurate and truthful? who can say...as truth can mean something different to different people. At best it's their personal viewpoint of what they believe to be true...at worst embellished to suit their target reader. We have to make up our own minds. Still to read a good book well writen weather it be fiction or non fiction is always better than not reading at all.

But then I do have a vested interest there. Wink

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: the honoured dead

the book i mentioned from the 30s was passed off as an actual travelogue but there was a person travelling with him and they were both refused entry .....but the author didn't let this stop him and went home and "imagined" the trip he was forbidden to take to recoup the cost of his travels.........fraude, plain and simple

the honoured dead is much better......he was actually there, the proof for me is that if he had stayed home and done research he would not have spelled "essaouira" (which he did not visit) "sawira" and "ksar el kebir" (as it is spelled on all maps and in all guidebooks) "qasr el kebir".....he was obviously transcribing from people talking......

not a bad book for three or four months "parachute journalism" although there are some mistakes

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: the honoured dead

Well yes I agree on that basis it was indeed...fraud. I will see if I can get a copy of "The Honoured Dead"...I feel it is something I would like to read.

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: the honoured dead

North africa follow Maliki Madhab and Maliki Madhab does not allow non Muslims entering prayer places. in other Madhab it is allowed in places such as Gulf countries based on Prophet's teachings(pbuh) when he allowed Christians leaders to pray in mosque.
No True Muslim would stop anyone to pray because no one own the msoque but when it becomes for political or show then people step in.
Arwen you are right a mosque is God place but non Muslims do not believe that Mosques are and in fact they believe that we worship satan except jews who do believe that Allah swt is Elohim where as Christians believe that Allah swt is Jesus or Jesus(God) is son of God and Mary (pbuh) the mother of God. and the three are one God in trinity.
Anyone can pray in mosque if you can prostrate to God but as you know mainstream non Muslim do dot except some coptic Christians and Orthodox Jews who do. Jewish Rabbis have given a fatwa for Jews to pray in Mosque but not churches

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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:19 am Post subject: Re: the honoured dead

TT...what are you talking about...

Do you have a fever or something? In all my days I have never heard of any non muslim person believing that mosques are used by muslims to worship Satan. Shocked

For the last time Christ was not God...but of God ..there is a big difference. You seem to be confused.com on one or two points there my friend.

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: the honoured dead

I am not confused i know what i am talking about.
Some Christians still believe that Muslims worship the god moon. I spent 20 hours debating such thing subject with a pastor who sadly still believe so. it was the most wasted time of my whole life.
You may say that Jesus is not God or son of God. but to Muslims and Jews God is outside the universe but still control the universe and all his creations.
he is not a creation and as you know Jesus used to go to Toilet eat have a fever sleep etc.. hence a human being a creation made of dust just like me and you. the difference of course is that he is the most highest prophet of God so spiritually he was strengthened with holy ghost which you like to call ghost but we call that ghost Prophet Gabriel pbuh.
Jesus the son of man was born just like Adam who had no mother no father and will Die (to us he is in heaven well and alive) when he descent on earth he will die just like any man. otherwise he would have conflicted his own saying which says that death is one and not twice.
Sadly ask any Christian they would say that Jesus is the physical God or the physical son of God

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:26 am Post subject: Re: the honoured dead

I'm thinking we've been down this dead end road before... Rolling Eyes

I know I should not laugh but really .... where did you find this pastor? and was he truely a man of God, because quite frankly if he say's he was, well me thinks he was maybe fibbing or winding you up... Cool

As no real pastor or whatever you choose to call them, would make light of another's beliefs in such a manner. Moon God indeedy!!!!

Please don't say in that tone...Sadly ask any Christian they would say that Jesus is the physical God or the physical son of God ....because there is nothing at all sad in my Christian beliefs.

Whatever arguements you put forward to justify your religious stand point, or dodgy articles to prove a point. I'm afraid they don't hold much water. Because you cannot prove to me 100% that what you believe is right and what I believe is wrong. It has nothing to do with Islam or Christianity but to do with ones faith...and mine is unshakeable.. Laughing

as I'm sure your's is..so my dear friend this is a debate I feel neither of us will ever win.

I will just say, so what if Christians believe Christ was son of God...it does not neccessarily mean that he was created as we humble beings are...God the creator is capable of anything, his greatness knows no bounds. If he wished to give a gift of a "son" in the form of Christ, and invest in him his holy spirit to show us the way then so be it. This can only be down to personal belief and I don't know why this is such an alien concept to you. There is one God...whatever name you call him by it's one and the same, the path I choose may be different to yours but it is no worse or better...just different. I respect yours but please don't diss mine.

Peace mates

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: the honoured dead

Arwen that pastor is well and alive and has many followers who pay 10% of their salary to his church.
Let's get this clear
Christianity is monotheistic, though Christians distinguish there to be Three Persons in God: the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. The Son, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, is Jesus Christ, Whose claims to divinity is believed and celebrated in the mainstream Christian religions. even if some do not believe so they still believe that God came down on earth in a form of man to die for our sins

Islam is monotheistic, but again differs from the above in the identity of God. Muslims call God, Allah and believe that Jesus Christ was one of the great prophets of Allah but certainly he was neither God nor divine.

Jesus Christ is therefore the proverbial stumbling-block between these three religions ie Judaism/Christianity and Islam

So if you believe that Jesus is not devine then you are technically a Muslim who still need to believe that Mohammed saws was the last prophet denying that would make you a non Muslim believer and most of all must believe that God is outside his creation and never came down in any form to die for us
Anyone who disbelieves in any God's prophet (there are over 124000) he has disbelieved in God being a Jew or a Christian or a Muslim. If a good Atheist does good on earth God shall reward him greatly but only on earth
The moment we die those who disbelieve will lose but while we are all alive we all have same chance of salvation regardless of our sins

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:30 am Post subject: Re: the honoured dead

Well my beliefs should be clear as crystal by now. So further discussion on this topic seems pointless.

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: the honoured dead

I am not arguing with you or trying to make your point of view less important. all I am saying is that it is important to clarify whey we do or say things:
Why non Muslims can not pray in Mosques??????

for Muslims/Jews they view God as not like anything he created since he created Jesus or best known in the correct name he knew in his time as Yasooh or Issa so therefore Yassoh the son of the virgin mother Marriam can not be anywhere near the power of God{ why are you saying that i am good? for i can not do anything without the will of my father} the above statement is enough to prove that Jesus as was no where devine . what we say is that both had the Namoos(fly or spirit or ghost or archangel you name it what you like all the same) who gave the son of man Yasooh the power he performed, the Quran says and we strengthened him with the holy Ghost but we say that the holy ghost is creation long before any human being was ever created he was created before all human spirits was created.
so totally different views on the understanding of God. that is why we Muslims and Jews say that Christians worship Jesus the man or spirit {{{{{{{{My local Church says on a mega banner Jesus is God and he loves you ))))))))just like the people of the village who worshipped Angels and those who worshipped Prophet ezra (pbuh) and called him son of God because he revived the whole village back from the dead with the will of God so we say Christians can not pray in our Mosques where as Muslims can pray anywhere since they worship God the father in Heaven of Jesus phuh

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: the honoured dead

I'm just too tired for all this. It's all just words and they are nothing against what one feels in ones heart.

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: the honoured dead

End of discussion