Abortion question

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:16 am Post subject: Abortion question

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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Abortion question

This is sick. that is why I hate these European laws
If i am against Murder then i should be able to say or and object in helping murderers

Abortion is a Murder if done before the soul gets into the body which for Muslims is around 120 days and for others few days.
to have abortion at 20 weeks is plain killings. there is no such thing as feeling sorry for those who were very happy in engaging in sexual pleasure and then later feel it is so easy to kill in order to go again and enjoy more sex.
I know a woman who at the age of 16 i was told by her sister that had 2 abortions in less than a year and the day she had abortion went to have sex few hours later. no shame no guilt.

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: Abortion question

It was more about the rights of the midwives in question, to be able to refuse to attend abortions as it was against their beliefs. They believe, quite rightly that all life is sacred and every child a gift from God. They should not be put in this position and I'm sure there are other midwives who could attend. But really I cannot see how any midwive whose job entails bringing new life into being should have to be present at terminations. In the past it was the job of nurses not midwives.

There are many reasons women choose to have abortions, and although I personally could never have one even if the baby was proven to have a disability, for it would be a precious gift regardless, but it's not for me to judge. Abortion will always be a fact of life. Better to have abortions carried out legally than in the backstreets the source of untold pain and misery. For the record I believe that from the moment of conception and the first division of cells that is the start of a potential life and as such a soul is born.

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Abortion question

Abortion is allowed but not the abortion we hear of.
These stupid EU laws need to go to the bin . like the Christian lady who offered a prayer to a dying witch and lost her job or the lady who was wearing a cross who too lost her job sick if you ask me. if we allow these secular devils ti get away with it we will have no religion left

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Abortion question

Now I'm well confused...

Abortion is murder = murder is wrong then in your next post abortion is allowed but not the abortion we hear of??? What type of abortion are you meaning? cos really abortion is the doing away with a child no matter what time it's done. How can you prove that the soul enters the feotus at 120 days? Or prove that its there from conception? You can't so that's not applicable as a rule when it comes to abortion. It's either right or wrong.

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: Abortion question

Abortion done at 20 weeks is murder sorry for not clarifying it. because the soul would have entered the body and hence it is a life taken hence murder
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“And verily we have honoured the children of Adam” (Surah al-Isra, V.70).
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Of course there are different opinions on when the soul enters the body and since i am a Muslim I naturally follow the shariah otherwise i would be called a Kafeer for not believing in shariah

Sorry for this long fatwa but like all fatwas they have to be long again sorry
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The Shari’ah ruling on abortion:
Abortion can be divided into two stages:

a) Abortion after the soul (Ruh) enters the foetus

b) Abortion prior to the entry of the soul in to the foetus

Before mentioning the ruling on abortion with regards to these two stages, it must be remembered here, that according to Shari’ah the soul (Ruh) enters the foetus at 120 days (4 months) from conception.

The Jurists (Fuqaha) have based this duration upon a Qur’anic verse and a statement of the beloved of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace). In the verse Allah states the stages of development of the embryo in the womb of the mother. Allah Almighty says:

“And verily we did create man from a quintessence (of clay). Then we placed him (as a drop of sperm) in a place of rest, firmly fixed. Then we made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood. Then of that clot we made a (foetus) lump. Then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh. Then we developed out of it another creature (by breathing life into it). So blessed be Allah, the most marvellous creator.” (Surah al-Mu’minun, 12/13/14).

In the Hadith recorded by the two most authentic authorities, Imam al-Bukhari and Imam Muslim in their respective Sahih collections, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) discussed in detail the periods elapsing between these stages, mentioned by the Qur’an.

Abdullah ibn Mas’ud (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:

“The seed of one of you remains in the womb of the mother for forty days in the form of a Nutfa. Then it remains like a clot for another forty days, and then for a same number of days like a lump of flesh" (when the formation of the limbs and the growth of the bones begin). (Sahih al-Bukhari & Sahih Muslim).

The great Hanafi Faqeeh Ibn Abidin States in his Radd al-Muhtar:

“The soul enters the foutus at one hundred & twenty days (4 months), as established by the Hadith” (Radd al-Muhtar, 1/202)

The ruling on abortion in stage (a) i.e. after the entry of the soul into the foetus which is (as explained) 120 days, is that, it is totally impermissible and tantamount to murder, as it results in the taking out of an innocent life. All the scholars have unanimously condemned such a ghastly act.

Imam Ibn Tamiiyah states in his Fatawa collection:

“Aborting a foetus has been declared unlawful (Haram) with the consensus of all the Muslim scholars. It is similar to burying an infant alive as referred to by Allah Almighty in the verse of the Qur’an: “And when the female infant, buried alive, will be asked as to what crime she was killed for” (Surah al-Takwir, 8) (Fatawa Ibn Tamiyya, 4/217).

Ibn Abidin (Allah have Mercy on him) also states the prohibition of this gruesome act in his treatise ‘Radd al-Muhtar’:

“If a woman intends to abort her pregnancy, then the Fuqaha have said: 'If the period of the soul being blown into the foetus has elapsed, it will be impermissible'”. (Radd al-Muhtar, 5/276).

If the Mother's Life is in Danger

Some Fuqaha and contemporary scholars have given a dispensation to abort the pregnancy after 120 days, in the situation where the life of the mother is in certain and absolute danger. This is based on the Juristic principle stated in the books of Usul al-Fiqh:

“If one is overtaken by two evils, one should choose the lesser of the two” (al-Ashbah wa al-Naza’ir, P.98)

They state that the mother’s life should be saved and the foetus aborted, as the mother is established in life, with duties and responsibilities, whereas the unborn child is still in the mother’s womb. But it should be remembered that the mother’s life must be in certain danger, and that this should be advised by a qualified and experienced Muslim doctor.

Abortion Before 120 Days

With regards to stage (b) i.e. prior to the entry of the soul into the foetus (120 days), the ruling is that, even in this case it is unlawful (Haram) to abort the pregnancy.

The reason why abortion prior to the soul entering the body will not be permitted is that, although there may not be life in the foetus, the foetus is considered to be part and parcel of the mother’s body as long as it remains in the womb. Thus, just as one’s very own life and also all the limbs and organs of the human body are trust given by the Almighty Creator, so too is the foetus also a trust given to the mother by Allah, and she will not have a right to abort it.

The only difference here is that the sin of aborting the foetus will be of a lesser degree then aborting it after 120 days. It would not be regarded as murder, rather violating the rights of a human organ entrusted to the mother by Allah Almighty.

It is stated in Radd al-Muhtar:

“It is not permissible to abort the pregnancy before and after the entry of the soul into the foetus” (Radd al-Muhtar, 5/279).

Extreme Circumstances

However, in certain extreme circumstances, it would be permitted to abort the pregnancy, before the entry of the soul (120 days), such as: when the woman conceives after being raped, the mothers life or health is in danger, or repeated pregnancies severely damages her health, etc…

Imam al-Haskafi writes in Durr al-Mukhtar:

“Aborting the pregnancy will be permissible due to a valid reason, provided the soul has not yet entered the foetus”.

It should be remarked here that pregnancy due to unlawful and illegal sex is no reason and excuse for abortion. The embryonic life farm in the mother’s womb is honoured and sacred even though it is a result of adultery (Hidaya, 2/292).

In conclusion, abortion after 120 days is totally unlawful and tantamount to murder. Some Fuqaha, however, have given a dispensation only in the situation where the mothers life is in certain danger. As far as abortion before the 120 days have elapsed is concerned, it will still be unlawful, though the sin will be of a lesser degree, and it will become permissible if there is a genuine and valid reason.

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari, UK

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Abortion question

Thank you for that information, I believe the soul is at conception, but there seem to be many schools of thought on this. But for me it seems logical that as soon as an egg is fertilised then it has the potential for life then there must be a soul.

My son was born at 22 weeks and just lived a few short hours, maybe now , with medical advances etc he would have survived and had the chance to grow. I believed he had a soul, and I believe he had had one from the star. It was what made him.

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:04 am Post subject: Re: Abortion question

I am very sorry for your" loss". God bless your son he was a living being indeed. It was not a real loss since he is in heaven free from blame and glad to be with God. Having lived a normal life one could say he may have turned not a wise man (a possibility ) in this case he is ever so happy to be with God. having lived a nice life there is still no guarantee to be in heaven so in this reason his outcome was a win and not a loss. the loss may have been to you as in sadness etc.. but that too is not a loss in a long term since it made you stonger wiser and grateful that you are living still. So either way all thanks to God the Almighty for his master plan.
Back to the soul , we can all sit and speculate over and over and the reality is that we know a little of it. (This question was one the the three questions put to Mohammed saws as a test by the high priests and Top Rabbi from Arabia to test if he was telling the truth and the response was that we know little of it). it is one of the area where God has kept a lid over it for many reasons. when The Top Rabbis left Mohammed saws the Jews and Arabs asked them whether Mohammed saws was telling the truth??? and they said to the Arabs------- if we were you we would follow this man for he is telling the truth---. Sadly the Rabbis told the truth but to others and not themselves because they always believed that their Maseeh(christ) has to be a Jew and not an Arab. same blindness as their fore fathers who failed to follow the light that God sent to them ie Jesus bpuh. similary we will always see signs and ignore them. the soul knowledge is also a sign that we know little of but speculation would push human beings to the limit of dakness